Talk:Coloureds

A circular definition?

The second paragraph tells me "Coloured was a legally defined racial classification....which effectively largely meant those people of colour..."

Yes, there's more to the sentence, but it seems that to know what "coloured" means, I need to know what "people of colour" are. This isn't helpful. HiLo48 (talk) 00:04, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that it's circular--it just requires understanding of another term.

That is, "coloured" here isn't a synonym of "person of colour", any more than "black" is a synonym for "person of colour"--it refers to a specific group under the broader umbrella of "person of colour". 102.65.50.120 (talk) 10:44, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

That makes no sense at all. HiLo48 (talk) 00:11, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Unsourced Statements

1. "Genetic studies suggest the group has the highest levels of mixed ancestry in the world."

No source is given for this.

2. "Mitochondrial DNA studies have demonstrated that many maternal lines of the Coloured population are descended from African Khoisan women."

According to this study, 45.18% of Coloured male haplogroups are Sub-Saharan African. (American Journal of Human Genetics, NIH) Strong Maternal Khoisan Contribution to the South African Coloured Population: A Case of Gender-Biased Admixture, Table 2. So this statement isn't quite complete, even misleading. 2001:1C00:1E20:D900:25AD:7A8B:F359:EA12 (talk) 16:40, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

I put in support for item 1 in the background section. The section on genetics seems to support the second statement, It says "many" without being specific, The statements made in the genetics section are supported from a 2010 study. Overall the article, particularly the lead have a bunch of factoids shoehorned in overtime. Perhaps a culling is needed. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 17:40, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Most of the information on this page is misleading. Please do proper research on Coloureds we come from 16th century when Dutch people colonised South Africa and had interracial unions with Khoisan woman and Asian slaves from Indonesia that is our ancestry predominantly. Minority would be the mix in with Indians other Asians and Zulu and Xhosa tribes with European men. 41.27.80.85 (talk) 14:22, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2023

Most of the information on this page is misleading. Please do proper research on Coloureds we come from 16th century when Dutch people colonised South Africa and had interracial unions with Khoisan woman and Asian slaves from Indonesia that is our ancestry predominantly. Minority would be the mix in with Indians from India and Sri Lanka other Asians from China and Malaysia and Zulu and Xhosa tribes with European men that were still of Dutch descent and some German and British.

Please on behalf of all Coloureds correct this.

Lastly the genetics is inaccurate if you are firmilar with coloureds out dna is 40% Khoisan, 31 % European and 29% Asian with Indian DNA aswell of about 25% please correct this.

Highly appreciated thank you. 41.27.80.85 (talk) 14:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 14:34, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Good Evening,

Hope you are well.

Firstly I’d like to apologise for all the edits I have made. As a Coloured person already dealing with racism when we are referred to as “Coloureds” or “Cape Coloureds” than to Google our ethnic group and still see so much misleading information is very hurtful.

Thank you for your response highly appreciated! Can I kindly request information to be added and removed. I took the information from South Africa’s history, Dutch history and Indonesian slaves brought to South Africa aswell as Afro-eurasians.

Please edit the introduction of Coloureds change X The Cape Coloured community is predominantly descended from numerous interracial sexual unions, primarily between Western Europeanmen and Khoisan or mixed-race women in the Cape Colony from the 17th century onwards. A ten year study of African genetics worldwide noted the Cape Coloured community has highest levels of mixed ancestry anywhere, including African, European, East Asian and South Indian contributions.

In KwaZulu-Natal, the Coloured possess a diverse heritage including British, Irish, German, Mauritian, Saint Helenian, Indian, Xhosa and Zulu. To Y Although Portuguese explorers made contact with the Cape of Good Hope as early as 1488, much of present-day South Africa was ignored by Europeans until the Dutch East India Company (VOC) established its first outpost at Cape Town, in 1652. Dutch colonisers began arriving shortly thereafter, making the Cape home to the oldest Western-based civilisation south of the Sahara. Some of the earliest mulatto communities in the country were subsequently formed through unions between Dutch colonists, enslaved Indonesian labourers and the Khoikhoi tribe. This led to the development of a major South African ethnic group, Cape Coloureds or Cape Malay and later known as “Coloureds” who adopted the Dutch language and culture. As the number of Europeans—particularly women—in the Cape swelled, South African whites closed ranks as a community to protect their privileged status, eventually marginalising Coloureds as a separate and inferior racial group. Both countries of South Africa and Sri Lanka were part of the Dutch and British Empires. Sri Lanka (then Ceylon) was a Dutch colony from 1658 - 1796 and a British colony from 1815 - 1948 while South Africa (mainly the Dutch Cape colony) was a Dutch colony from 1652 - 1806 and a British colony (including other parts of South Africa) from 1806 - 1910. The relations of both South Africa and Ceylon would've happened during the two periods of colonialism.

During the Dutch colonial period in the 17th and 18th centuries, the Dutch brought slaves from Ceylon. The slaves got there from voyages sponsored by the Dutch East India Company (VOC) where they sent slave ships from the Cape which their 'return' fleet sailed from Ceylon, the Dutch East Indies and back to the Netherlands and those fleets would stop at the Cape on their way home. The Ceylonese who went on these fleets came as personal slaves. In the early 18th century, majority of the slaves in the Cape were from India and Ceylon.[1] The slaves mixed in with the population and the descendants could be seen with the Cape Malays and Cape Coloured.

Sri Lanka established diplomatic relations on 12 September 1994 following the end of Apartheid and the election of Nelson Mandela to the new Government of South Africa of its post Apartheid period.

Lastly, the part where it talks about genetics please change X Genetics

At least one genetic study indicates that Cape Coloureds have ancestries from the following ethnic groups; not all Coloureds in South Africa had the same ancestry.

Indigenous Khoisan: (32–43%)

Indigenous Bantu peoples, chiefly from Southern Africa: (20–36%)

Peoples from Europe: (21–28%)

Peoples from South and Southeast Asia: (9–11%)

Studies also show that coloured also have Xhosa ancestry.

Coloureds from the Eastern Cape have British, Xhosa and Irish

The Malagasy component in the Coloured composite gene pool is itself a blend of Malayand Bantu genetic markers.

This genetic admixture appears to be gender-biased. A majority of maternal genetic material is Khoisan. The Cape Coloured population is descended predominantly from unions of European and European-African males with autochthonous Khoisan females.

Coloureds in KwaZulu-Natal tend to be descended from unions between Zulu women and British settlers, and the group includes people with Mauritian and St Helenian ancestry.

To Y Coloureds are descendants of mixed ancestry including African, European and Asian. They are nationals of South Africa. Their ancestors came from the Netherlands, Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka and the Indigenous Khoisan tribe during Dutch colonisation in 1652 onwards.

Coloureds adopted the Dutch language during colonisation but were still segregated into their own communities and are now a major ethnic group.

I sincerely hope you will take my request in to consideration for all Coloured people that don’t have access to get this changed legally.

This would be highly appreciated and if you do some research you would see that Indonesians are part of our ancestry with Dutch colonists and the Khoisan tribe predominately and minority would be from Xhosa tribes and Indians.

Please I would really appreciate this and so will the Coloured communities.

Please see pages Afro-Asians search Africa than find South Africa, lastly search History of South Africa and read under Dutch Colonisation 1652-1815.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Keep well and stay blessed.

Looking forward to your response. 41.27.80.85 (talk) 18:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@41.27.80.85:  Not done You still have not provided a clear request of "please change 'x' to 'y'". But more importantly, you have provided no sources to verify that your preferred version is more correct than the current version. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 11:27, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Why do we not have this definition at the top of any discussion about race and racial identity?

It must first be stated that the concept of race is non-scientific. It is an arbitrary classification of human beings that has no basis. The color of one’s skin has nothing to do with race as a concept. Original thoughts about race have been based on cultural differences and what is historically seen as politically correct versus politically incorrect.

I definitely take offense to this article. I an be labeled “Caucasian” but I have brown skin because I was born in India. All discussions about race need to begin with the statement that race is not scientific. The term mixed marriage is also objectionable. I have a marriage. Not a mixed marriage! I am a doctor of medicine in the USA, and race is a construct only, but has no actual meaning whatsoever.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanchan M Mahon (talk • contribs)

Race

Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society. While partly based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning. The concept of race is foundational to racism, the belief that humans can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another. Kanchan M Mahon (talk) 14:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Miscegenation

Why are we using this word when the definition says that it is pejorative?

Miscegenation (/mɪˌsɛdʒəˈneɪʃən/ mih-SEJ-ə-NAY-shən) is marriage or admixture between people who are members of different races.The word, now usually considered pejorative, is derived from a combination of the Latin terms miscere ('to mix') and genus ('race' or 'kind').The word first appeared in Miscegenation: The Theory of the Blending of the Races, Applied to the American White Man and Negro, an anti-abolitionist pamphlet David Goodman Croly and others published anonymously in advance of the 1864 presidential election in the United States.

Kanchan M Mahon (talk) 14:58, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

If we remove the word it will imply that Coloureds are only produced from interracial marriage and not interracial sex outside of marriage. Also the Miscegenation article currently has a bunch of information on the subject that makes it an appropriate link to expanded on what is being address in the context. Perhaps that article needs addressing. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 19:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC)